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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:54 pm 
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Thanks Bruce, I ordered 2 card fans today!

I think I may see how the temps are before removing the heat sink and re-applying any paste. Planning to get a little temp gauge too to test out my temps.

Thanks for the info!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:26 pm 
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Got my fans (i bought 2 as well) and I'm going to get a temp sensor to see what my results with an airport card are... the 900 upgrade has been working great so far but it still seems like it is so hot!

When the computer has been on for a while (30 min or so) and I open the keyboard, I could literally burn myself on the heat shield.

Yet still, my internal fan does not come on- it has only come on once, and this was before the upgrade.

If I find I have abnormal temps, I'll get more compound and use Bruce's method of application.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:40 pm 
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It would be great to have your temps with and without the fan posted, and then the temps if you do change compound/application.

Mine has run at about 104-110º F for several weeks consistently with the temp sensor reading the heat shield right above the processor.

I flattened the CompUSA temp sensor leads with needle nose pliers (carefully), taped it on the heat shield right above the processor and ran the wire out through a slot next to the fan. That way the keyboard fit properly, and the temp sensor wasn’t in the way.

I was told by the supplier they could order more fans, so others should be able to get one too.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:55 pm 
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I couldn't find that thermometer at my CompUSA... I'll have to order it online.

Then I'll post.

With the fan, the keyboard DEFINITELY feels much cooler, though the bottom is still piping hot.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:02 pm 
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Anything you do to help bottom cooling will have an effect, going all the way back to my 400 in OS9. Sitting it on glass or marble or metal will help, elevating it at bit for more air flow will help. Fabrics and soft bedding are the worst choices.

My choice was one of the 3 fan USB powered bases, it made almost as much a difference as the PCMCIA slot fan. You can buy one on eBay for about $7.00. Their called NB-600 by CyberCooler. They are cheapy plastic quality, but run nearly silent and are only 1/2" thick. I don't personally care for the other similar devices that also tilt the keyboard forward, this one is simply slab-like. There's another one made of metal for around $20.00. Search eBay for "laptop cooler."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:05 pm 
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Well, I got one of the cheap plastic coolers that does tilt the machine... pretty great solution, except for the fact that the fans are not covered by any kind of grill so I can't sit the cooler on my lap or they just grind to a halt.

I'm still planning on making sure my thermal paste is applied in the best method... My laptop is becoming less and less portable with the PCI fan and the cooling base on it!

Bruce, do you think that with the Powerlogix new copper heat sink applied with the correct thermal compound (using your "saran wrap" method!), my Pismo could be used at least 1/2 the time w/o these other fans? I have no problem using them at home, but my Pismo is pretty much only for travelling!

And what do you think about not using the copper piece and using the original heat sink w/ tube?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:23 pm 
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The cooling base I suggested is solid on the bottom, the only grilles for the fans are on the side facing the Powerbook's bottom. With small velcro strips on either side, the base stays attached to the Powerbook.

For portable use, I suggest downloading the free CPU Director PL software and under-clocking the processor to greatly reduce heat and conserve battery life.

When I run Yellow Dog Linux with my 900 Pismo, Linux only recognizes the processor as 550mz and runs at that speed. Since Linux runs much more efficiently than OSX, the speed is satisfactory, but what is remarkable is that the Powerbook stays totally cool (with temps around 105ºF) even without the PCMCIA fan running (Linux won't power it). So it would appear that great benefit in heat reduction comes with choosing lower clock speeds with CPU Director and the PL processor.

As I suggested, it looks to me like the original heat pipe assembly would work just fine with the 900 processor, but quite frankly I haven't tried it since mine works so well for me (90% of my use as a desktop replacement) and I'm not anxious to experiment yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:01 pm 
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Bruce-

thanks again for the tips! You are extremely helpful!

I too "underclock" with CPU director- That helps a lot with the heat issue. Honestly, with that and the PCMCIA fan, it's not bad at all.

I need to find the flat cooling base.

And regarding the original heat sink, I have an email in to Powerlogix although I don't know what kind of support to expect from them!

thanks again!
Joe


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:15 pm 
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Joe,

Here is a link for the USB fan base I've been mentioning:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/nexfan03/usblacopadw3.html

It attaches to the Powerbook bottom well with 1 - 2 " velcro strips (you supply) on left and right centered well, and doesn't add much overall bulk at all.

I doubt Powerlogix will comment on using the heatpipe.

If you could post some of your temps with underclocking, would appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:11 pm 
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Bruce-

I FINALLY got the temp gauge... and of course, wouldn't you know it, the batteries are almost dead! The little tape that goes inbetween the battery and contacts was missing so they were on the whole time in the store.

Anyway, I was able to read it a bit and it seemed that underclocked to 550MHZ and with the PCMCIA fan but no cooling base I was around 122-123 deg. F. That's not very encouraging to me for what the 900 temps might be like!

Then I started to lose the temp readout due to battery. So I'm going to get a new batt. and do a full line of tests- clocked and underclocked with PCMCIA fan and base and without.

Additionally, I got some new thermal paste- Artic Sliver 3, which I have read you do not like, but what about for connecting the copper to the heat sink and not on the CPU? I got some CompUSA branded thermal pads too- could I use those on the cpu side?

CompUSA didn't have a whole lot... so I'm not sure if these are good enough. I can go to a different specialty PC store we have here to find something better maybe.

I'll post temps soon. Probably Monday.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:38 am 
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Joe,

My temp LCD'd also had nearly dead batteries inside, but did come with a second set in little bag.

Your temps seem really high for the clock speed and using the fan, mine being 10 - 15º F cooler even at 900mz.

The Arctic Siver 3 would be fine for the heat sink plate, but you have to be especially careful with AS3 around the CPU. Being electrically conductive to a tiny degree, just be certain to only get any on the CPU face and NONE beyond, especially those little caps surrounding the CPU.

But with the plastic barrier sheet in place, you should be fine with the tiny amount of AS3 used properly. I was being especially cautious so others wouldn't fry their CPU using AS3 in a sloppy manner.

I think AS3 would be a better choice than the thermal pads, the AS3 is vastly better heat conductor.

Just to be clear for others, I can only recommend Arctic Silver brand Ceramique (being 100% non-conductive) for state-of-the-art thermal transfer compound, available here:

http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/50/cat50.htm?969


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:41 pm 
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Bruce-

Thanks again- I had tossed that little bag because all I saw were the mounting screws... but I found it and there are 2 new batteries inside.

I am ordering some of the Artic Silver Ceramique from the link you gave.

I have not yet removed the whole assembly, but I don't remember a "plastic barrier sheet"... can you elaborate?

I was afraid my temps were high... I truly believe that part of it is my application of the orig. compound... I used my bare fingers, as the instructions made no mention of that and i had not discovered your post.

I will post my temps today with the current setup. I will wait to reapply the new compound until I get the ceramique, as I am a bit skiddish about putting it near the CPU but I have no other option... but if you can elaborate on the plastic sheet, maybe I will feel more ok about it and will go for it with the AS3 and then again when the new stuff comes in.

Thanks again, you are extremely helpful... if it would be easier to correspond via email, you can write me at joemazza AT mindspring DOT com.

OK- preliminary testing-

All these temps are with iMovie running full- editing, playing back, rendering, etc. I figure that should give me the HIGHEST CPU temps..

CPU TEMPS
**imovie going at full**
900 MHZ
2 fans: 128-129
PCMCIA only: 130-132
No fans: 135-136

550 MHZ
2 fans 126-127
PCMCIA only: 127-128
no fans 130-131

350MHZ
2 fans: 122-123
PCMCIA only: 122-123
NO FANS 127-128

The cooling base fan seems to make the least difference, but that is because the temp. gauge strip is stuck on the TOP of the CPU cage.

These temps are NOT at all encouraging, and I probably really need to reapply the thermal compound.

Until then I plan to try to keep the machine at a low CPU and with the fans going!

I have not had the upgrade that long, and I don't ever leave the machine on for long, I always sleep it when I'm done, so I don't think I have done much damage.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:10 pm 
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Joe,

Those temps/CPU clocking stats are very informative. Looks almost as if a chart with curves could be built from them.

Your temps are somewhat consisently higher than mine, I'm at 107.8 surfing right now with both fans @ 900mhz. I've never seen higher than 125º running full CPU. But, I really think you’re perfectly safe running at your current temps. I had a 400mhz processor that ran as high as 205º F without damage (and the internal fan still never came on).

I will also try out some underclocked/temp combinations. How do the speeds feel, are they useful for battery runs?

Both (first DOA) 900 chips have had a little frosted plastic cover over the chip with a cutout just the size of the CPU face. So, excess compound won't spread out as easily, I assume. Did yours also (easy to miss it in the excitement of installing to start up)?

I'm hoping our adventures and the posts are helping out others in this crazy desire to have the speed without the extreme heat issues. I know I would have been very happy to have had all this information here first without having to finding out the hard way!

I'm glad you've ordered Ceramique, you using that makes me much more comfortable than AS3 does.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:54 pm 
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Well, I'm not sure about the plastic piece... I don't remember it, but that doesn't mean it didn't (doesn't) exist! i also have the original box, etc. so I can check to see if it fell off into there.

Glad to know my temps won't kill my machine, but I'd still be happier lowering them a bit. The ceramique with proper application should help. I'll report back again after I have that.

As far as how the various CPU speeds feel, honestly, when got the upgrade, it never blew me away as being doubly fast or anything like that. There's honestly not an extremely noticeable difference between 900 and 550 MHZ. Now, when you get down to 350, it's noticeable!

And regarding battery, I've yet to time it, so I can't really say. Again, even on 350, I don't feel like the battery is lasting much longer if at all. But I've never done a controlled test either.

Yes, I hope this thread helps as well! The upgrade is great, but lengthening its life via better heat dispersal would be even better!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:14 am
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Bruce-

AS Ceramique arrived yesterday. I will do the reapplication in the next couple of days.

One question- your instructions and the AS web instructions differ just a bit.

Here's what I am planning on doing, correct me if I am wrong-

+Cleaning all surfaces with high % alcohol.
+Using a plastic bag (or credit card- got that tip from a CompUSA tech) to apply a thin layer evenly on the entire face of the copper sink (the side that goes against the cage).
+now here's the question- do I then apply an even layer over the entire CPU chip face or just a rice-grain sized drop? AS says a rice-grain drop, I think you said smooth it out over the CPU face... this is the most critical part, so I want to be clear.

Thanks! Wish me luck!

Joe


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